Undying
[wiki] rating: 1.6 (winrate: 49% pickrate: 7%)Alchemist
[wiki] rating: 1.0 (winrate: 53% pickrate: 4%)Doom
* Chemical Rage out-heals Doom to a large degree throughout all stages of the game. Should Alchemist be chemically enraged before being Doomed, Alchemist can become a difficult target to effectively lockdown and kill, thanks to the health regeneration and movement speed bonuses granted by his ultimate.
* Alchemist is an ineffective target for Doom. Alchemist isn't totally reliant on his skills to be effective during a teamfight, due to the right-click nature of the hero.
Ancient Apparition
[wiki] rating: 1.0 (winrate: 52% pickrate: 9%)Winter Wyvern
* Cold Embrace makes its target immovable, allowing Ancient Apparition to easily land Ice Blast, or a Cold Feet stun
* Ice Blast also negates healing from Cold Embrace
Additional:
* Ice Blast disables the healing component of Cold Embrace, making it essentially a 4 second stun on an ally and a perfect setup for Ice Blast.
* If Cold Feet is cast on an enemy hero affected by Cold Embrace, it will almost guarantee the enemy comes out stunned.
Pugna
[wiki] rating: 1.0 (winrate: 51% pickrate: 4%)Winter Wyvern
* Cold Embrace is a death sentence against Pugna, since its the perfect setup for all his abilities, especially Life Drain.
* Decrepify can be cast to save the ally under Winter's Curse effect, wasting most of its duration.
* Winter Wyvern's abilities require a lot of mana, allowing Nether Ward to deal lots of damage.
Naga Siren
[wiki] rating: 1.0 (winrate: 50% pickrate: 2%)Winter Wyvern
* Song of the Siren can be used to nullify the effects of Winter's Curse, and when upgraded with Aghanim's Scepter it also outmatches the heal of Cold Embrace.
* If Winter Wyvern is reckless enough to put an ally in Cold Embrace, Naga Siren will be able to use her Ensnare to extend the disable on the hero affected by Cold Embrace.
Outworld Destroyer
[wiki] rating: 1.0 (winrate: 50% pickrate: 6%)Doom
* Any heroes with low mana pools will die quickly or even instantly to Sanity's Eclipse: Doom,
Phantom Assassin,
Troll Warlord.
Winter Wyvern
* Outworld Devourer's pure damage from Arcane Orb can go through Cold Embrace.
* Outworld Devourer can negate the healing from Cold Embrace using Astral Imprisonment, and steal mana while doing so.
* Outworld Devourer's damage during Winter's Curse is reduced due to Arcane Orb being unable to target allies.
Additional:
* Winter Wyvern must never put her allies in Cold Embrace against Outworld Destroyer as Arcane Orb will continue to steal Intelligence and deal damage to the defenseless hero.
* Arcane Orb does not hit his allies when he is taunted by Winter's Curse, making it weak against allies, but strong versus enemies.
* Astral Imprisonment can protect a target inflicted with Winter's Curse.
Doom
* Any heroes with silences can negate the majority of Outworld Devourer's damage output: Death Prophet,
Night Stalker,
Drow Ranger,
Doom .
Skywrath Mage
[wiki] rating: 1.0 (winrate: 50% pickrate: 6%)Winter Wyvern
* Cold Embrace is a perfect setup for Mystic Flare.
* Winter Wyvern is a spellcaster, and the 6 second silence from Ancient Seal can prevent her from contributing much.
* Because Skywrath Mage tends to stay back in fights, Winter Wyvern will have to get close to a teamfight to cast Winter's Curse on him. However, if she chooses to cast it on one of his allies, his low attack speed and damage means that he won't do much.
Additional:
* Cold Embrace is the perfect setup for Mystic Flare, and his 6-second silence is good against Winter Wyvern in general.
Drow Ranger
[wiki] rating: 1.0 (winrate: 50% pickrate: 8%)Doom
* Drow Ranger can be difficult to get on top of, thanks to her Frost Arrows and
Gust. With these two abilities, Drow Ranger is able to effectively 'kite' Doom and minimize his impact during team fights and laning stage.
* Much of Drow Ranger's effectiveness comes from her passive, which is not disabled by Doom.
Luna
[wiki] rating: 1.0 (winrate: 49% pickrate: 4%)Winter Wyvern
* Cold Embrace is no salvation against Lucent Beam and
Eclipse.
* Moon Glaives will not hit a hero affected by Winter's Curse, making it weak against allies, but strong versus enemies.
* Luna has better night vision provided by Lunar Blessing than Winter Wyvern when affected by Arctic Burn.
Additional:
* Cold Embrace is no salvation against Lucent Beam and
Eclipse.
* Moon Glaives will not hit a hero affected by Winter's Curse, making it weak against allies, but strong versus enemies.
* Luna has better night vision provided by Lunar Blessing than Winter Wyvern when affected by Arctic Burn.
Zeus
[wiki] rating: 1.0 (winrate: 49% pickrate: 11%)Winter Wyvern
* Any ally that Winter Wyvern tries to save with Cold Embrace can still be damaged by all of Zeus's spells.
* If Winter Wyvern tries to juke vision by flying up a cliff or in the trees, Zeus can gain vision there with Lightning Bolt or Thundergod's Wrath.
* If Zeus is forced to attack an ally by Winter's Curse, his unimpressive attack damage and attack speed means they won't be hurt much by him. Zeus will also stay near the back of fights away from his allies, making a deadly Curse less likely.
Necrophos
[wiki] rating: 1.0 (winrate: 49% pickrate: 4%)Doom
* Due to Doom's naturally high health, strength gain and common itemization for durability, Heartstopper Aura is particularly effective. The health loss is also large enough that, throughout all stages of the game, the aura effectively neuters the health regeneration granted by Devour.
* Necrophos can help to keep both himself and his allies alive during Doom through his natural regeneration granted by Heartstopper Aura (which is not disabled by Doom), or in the case of an ally, through his
Death Pulse. Additionally, Necrophos is an ideal
Mekansm carrier. Should one be bought, kills against Necrophos' team can be difficult to secure due to the damage-over-time nature of Doom and his abilities.
* Doom typically wants to be a hero that soaks attention from the enemy team and takes the role of an initiator and disabler. As such, Doom is an ideal target for Reaper's Scythe, as it is likely Doom will be at the fore-front of any fight.
Viper
[wiki] rating: 1.0 (winrate: 48% pickrate: 6%)Doom
* The slow applied from Corrosive Skin offsets the movement speed bonus granted by Scorched Earth and the tick-based damage from Infernal Blade and Doom will continually slow Doom down. This allows Viper, much like Sniper, to 'kite' Doom and keep him at a safe distance between the two. Additionally,
Corrosive Skin applies an attack-speed slow which is fairly crippling to a hero such as Doom that, naturally, has a high base attack-time, poor agility gain and builds little attack-speed items.
* Since Doom does not disable auto-cast abilities, Viper's Poison Attack will continue to work. Doom may find it hard to close the distance between himself and Viper, and thusly difficult to effectively lockdown and continually deal damage through his abilities.
Rubick
[wiki] rating: 1.0 (winrate: 47% pickrate: 17%)Winter Wyvern
* All of Winter Wyvern's spells are generally good for Rubick to steal:
* Arctic Burn provides bonus attack range, night vision and burn.
* Splinter Blast makes farming and pushing efficient while also slowing down the enemies.
* Cold Embrace can heal an ally and protect them against physical attacks.
* Winter's Curse can be stolen by Rubick and use it against herself or her own team.
Medusa
[wiki] rating: 1.0 (winrate: 45% pickrate: 2%)Doom
* Doom does not disable Mana Shield. As such, Doom's damage is largely mitigated by her mana shield. Additionally, Medusa is not reliant on her abilities to be effective during a teamfight, making Medusa an unproductive hero to target.
* Medusa is an ideal Linken's Sphere carrier. Should one be purchased, and without any additional disables, Doom may find that few opportunities exist to effectively lockdown, disable, and kill Medusa.
Bane
[wiki] rating: 0.6 (winrate: 52% pickrate: 5%)Winter Wyvern
* Heroes that wish to disrupt fights with spell combos or big ultimates are vulnerable to the long stun of Fiend's Grip: Disruptor,
Death Prophet,
Enigma,
Faceless Void,
Invoker,
Lich,
Magnus,
Mars,
Medusa,
Outworld Destroyer,
Phoenix,
Puck,
Queen of Pain,
Shadow Fiend,
Treant Protector,
Underlord,
Winter Wyvern,
Witch Doctor,
Zeus.
Weaver
[wiki] rating: 0.6 (winrate: 50% pickrate: 7%)Doom
* Heroes who often build Linken's Sphere:
Weaver,
Morphling,
Medusa.
Omniknight
[wiki] rating: 0.6 (winrate: 49% pickrate: 2%)Winter Wyvern
* Guardian Angel completely counters Winter's Curse if he is able to cast it.
Additional:
* Guardian Angel completely counters Winter's Curse, allowing his team to survive Winter Wyvern's initiation.
* Purification and
Heavenly Grace are very useful against Arctic Burn and Splinter Blast as well.
Doom
* Heroes with the ability to heal allies, or those with good defensive abilities: (Chen,
Dazzle,
Io,
Oracle,
Omniknight,
Witch Doctor,
Winter Wyvern, (
Abaddon, etc.
Doom
* Doom turns Omniknight into a walking creep, or completely takes out his buffed cores, also removing Guardian Angel in the process.
* Doom has access to Satyr Banisher's Purge, which allows him to remove Guardian Angel.
Additional:
* Doom applies a basic dispel upon cast, so it can remove Guardian Angel.
* Casting Doom on Omniknight will prevent him from healing allies with Purification, or casting buffs like
Heavenly Grace and
Guardian Angel.
Sniper
[wiki] rating: 0.6 (winrate: 48% pickrate: 5%)Doom
* Heroes who Sniper can kite: Sven,
Wraith King,
Kunkka,
Doom,
Tidehunter,
Underlord,
Troll Warlord, and etc.
Additional:
* Due to the nature of the hero, Sniper is typically situated in the back of the fight, potentially making him a difficult target to initiate on and fight.
* Sniper is largely a right-click hero, and as such isn't as an effective of a Doom target as other heroes.
* Thanks to Shrapnel and
Headshot, Sniper is able to effectively 'kite' Doom, preventing him from closing the distance between the two.
Mars
[wiki] rating: 0.6 (winrate: 47% pickrate: 16%)Doom
* Heroes who can disable Mars but cannot do any damage to him, meaning he just tanks their abilities: Doom,
Magnus.
Witch Doctor
[wiki] rating: 0.6 (winrate: 47% pickrate: 13%)Doom
* Heroes with the ability to heal allies, or those with good defensive abilities: (Chen,
Dazzle,
Io,
Oracle,
Omniknight,
Witch Doctor,
Winter Wyvern, (
Abaddon, etc.
Lina
[wiki] rating: 0.6 (winrate: 47% pickrate: 13%)Winter Wyvern
* Heavy nukers will do well against Cold Embrace (Lina,
Zeus etc).
Wraith King
[wiki] rating: 0.4 (winrate: 53% pickrate: 20%)Doom
* Even if he is Doomed, Wraith King can tear down Doom with physical attacks, and can still reincarnate as long as it is off-cooldown.
Additional:
* Wraith King has three passive abilities and only a single active ability, so Doom does not hinder him significantly.
* Doom expires upon death, so it is effectively removed after Reincarnation activates.
Winter Wyvern
* Many physical-only single-target heroes like Lifestealer,
Sven,
Wraith King,
Phantom Assassin etc.
Centaur Warrunner
[wiki] rating: 0.4 (winrate: 49% pickrate: 4%)Doom
* Whenever Doom casts his ultimate, Centaur Warrunner can cast Stampede and allow the Doomed hero to run away, wasting Doom's ultimate.
Additional:
* Stampede can be used to free an ally from the grasp of Doom. Without any means of effective lockdown, kills can be difficult to secure when against an enemy Centaur Warrunner.
Winter Wyvern
* Winter Wyvern's
Arctic Burn can also be a useful tool against Centaur, who generally has very high health.
Winter's Curse on Centaur can cause Retaliate to damage allies who are forced to attack him.
Slark
[wiki] rating: 0.4 (winrate: 48% pickrate: 13%)Winter Wyvern
* Arctic Burn and Splinter Blast debuffs are dispellable with Dark Pact. Arctic Burn is also no escape against
Pounce.
* Cold Embrace just gives Slark free Essence Shift stacks. He also relies mostly on magic damage early in the game.
Doom
* Heroes with silencing abilities can be particularly deadly when Slark is trying to escape: Silencer,
Death Prophet,
Puck,
Doom
Lifestealer
[wiki] rating: 0.4 (winrate: 46% pickrate: 5%)Doom
* Feast deals damage and heals Lifestealer based on the target's maximum HP, which is greatly effective against naturally high HP heroes such as Doom.
* Rage allows Lifestealer to become spell immune to negate the magical damage of Infernal Blade and Scorched Earth.
* Doom has no effective means of escape from Open Wounds. This is particularly devastating in lane, where Doom may have to play a much more passive, conservative play style as a result.
Winter Wyvern
* Many physical-only single-target heroes like Lifestealer,
Sven,
Wraith King,
Phantom Assassin etc.
Spectre
[wiki] rating: -2.0 (winrate: 46% pickrate: 6%)Winter Wyvern
* Arctic Burn makes it nearly impossible for Spectre to juke into the trees.
* Cold Embrace negates all of Spectre's physical damage. Furthermore, Cold Embrace will generally outheal Desolate.
* Winter's Curse can taunt illusions, not only wasting the entire duration of Haunt but also turning its illusions against Spectre's own team.
Doom
* Infernal Blade's damage is calculated by percentage of maximum health, meaning that it will hurt Spectre more than most normal attacks, negating some of her tankiness.
* With Aghanim's Scepter Dispersion and Desloate are disabled.
* Doom can pick up several different abilities from neutral creeps using Devour, some of which can be annoying to Spectre.
* Mud Golem, Dark Troll Summoner, Harpy Stormcrafter, Satyr Mindstealer or Satyr Tormenter are good examples.
* Doom makes Spectre less disruptive.
Clinkz
[wiki] rating: -2.0 (winrate: 52% pickrate: 5%)Doom
* Scorched Earth deals damage to Clinkz during Skeleton Walk.
* Doom shuts down Clinkz entirely, as it prevents him from casting any of his spells and contributing a large amount of damage in teamfights.
Winter Wyvern
* Cold Embrace can heal herself or an ally, as well as protecting them from Clinkz' physical attacks and wasting his mana if Searing Arrows is on autocast.
* Winter's Curse allows Winter Wyvern to turn Clinkz' high damage (and high attack speed if he used Skeleton Walk) against his allies, or take advantage of Clinkz' fragility if he can't use Skeleton Walk.
Enigma
[wiki] rating: -2.0 (winrate: 53% pickrate: 4%)Winter Wyvern
* Winter's Curse, when directly targeted on Enigma, can go through
Avatar, stopping Enigma's Black Hole channeling. It can also can turn his team against him, potentially killing him.
* Splinter Blast can be targeted on an eidolon, killing off other eidolons and damaging nearby heroes as well.
Doom
* Doom pierces spell immunity and can prevent Enigma from casting any spells or using items until the duration of the spell depletes, as well as damaging him over time. This can however, be blocked by a Linken's Sphere.
* An Enigma with a Helm of the Dominator can potentially feed his dominated creeps to Doom's Devour, giving Doom the abilities and benefits instead.
Faceless Void
[wiki] rating: -1.6 (winrate: 43% pickrate: 7%)Doom
* Faceless Void relies on
Time Walk for mobility and survivability but he can be prevented from utilizing it through Doom.
* Doom has a high cooldown duration for every ability except Infernal Blade, so he is not significantly affected by Time Dilation.
Winter Wyvern
* Any hero that can nullify effects of Chronosphere: (Omniknight,
Keeper of the Light with
Aghanim's Scepter during daytime,
Winter Wyvern), banishing him or Faceless Void (
Outworld Destroyer,
Shadow Demon,
Earth Spirit with
Aghanim's Scepter) or protecting him in other ways (
Dazzle,
Oracle,
Abaddon) can greatly limit Chronosphere's potential.
Nature's Prophet
[wiki] rating: -1.6 (winrate: 46% pickrate: 5%)Doom
* Doom can eats Nature's Prophet's treants with Devour and gains lots of gold.
* Doom usually buys Radiance or using his
Scorched Earth deals a lot of damage to Nature's Prophet if they stand close to his Treants, as well as killing all of his Treants and getting lots of gold.
* Doom can pick up several different abilities from neutral creeps using Devour, some of which can be annoying to Nature's Prophet:
* Mud Golem, Dark Troll Summoner, Harpy Stormcrafter, Satyr Mindstealer, Satyr Tormenter and etc. are good examples.
* Doom and a ministun from
Infernal Blade's prevents Nature's Prophet from escaping with Sprout and Teleportation.
Winter Wyvern
* Broodmother,
Nature's Prophet,
Phantom Lancer by their nature offer very good target for Splinter Blast and Winter's Curse.
Meepo
[wiki] rating: -1.6 (winrate: 47% pickrate: 1%)Doom
* Besides Lone Druid and
Meepo, Doom is potentially good versus every hero since Doom will render any hero helpless for a prolonged 15 seconds. This is particularly true for fragile heroes that heavily rely on mobility to stay alive.
Winter Wyvern
* Winter's Curse in late game is pretty much the end for Meepo or any of his nearby allies. Natural counter for Winter's Curse like
Linken's Sphere or
Lotus Orb is meaningless to her if she can land it on one of your clones.
Additional:
* Meepo's clones usually gets grouped in teamfight making any of them ideal target for Winter's Curse, forcing Meepo to literally kill himself. Also unlike another hero he cannot protect himself with Linken's Sphere.
Axe
[wiki] rating: -1.6 (winrate: 49% pickrate: 10%)Doom
* Infernal Blade's damage is calculated by percentage of maximum health, meaning that it will hurt Axe more than most normal attacks, negating some of his tankiness. With
Aghanim's Scepter, Counter Helix is also disabled, making him effectively useless for a lengthy duration.
* Doom can pick up several different abilities from neutral creeps using Devour, some of which can be annoying to Axe.
* Mud Golem, Dark Troll Summoner, Harpy Stormcrafter, Satyr Mindstealer or Satyr Tormenter are good examples.
* Doom's naturally low attack speed makes Counter Helix less likely to proc.
* Doom makes Axe less disruptive, preventing him from using his skills or items.
Additional:
* Infernal Blade deals scaling damage and is useful against high HP targets such as Axe.
* Doom has low attack speed because of his high Base-Attack-Time, poor agility gain and limited attack-speed granting items which are commonly built. This means Doom will trigger Counter Helix less often and thus is an unideal target for initiation.
* Doom has naturally high HP so it takes longer for Doom to be brought down to the killing threshold of Culling Blade.
* Axe is highly reliant on his abilities and items to be effective during a fight. Without the usage of Berserker's Call and
Blink Dagger, Axe offers very little in the way of damage.
Winter Wyvern
* Heroes who can slow and kite Axe will severely inhibit his presence in fights: Bristleback,
Crystal Maiden,
Batrider,
Arc Warden,
Winter Wyvern,
Clockwerk
Ogre Magi
[wiki] rating: -1.6 (winrate: 52% pickrate: 16%)Winter Wyvern
* Winter Wyvern's
Winter's Curse works very well against the increased attack speed from Bloodlust.
Doom
* Doom makes Ogre Magi less disruptive.
* Infernal Blade effectively negates Ogre Magi's tankiness.
* With Aghanim's Scepter he can disable Multicast.
Phantom Assassin
[wiki] rating: -1.2 (winrate: 46% pickrate: 16%)Winter Wyvern
* Many physical-only single-target heroes like Lifestealer,
Sven,
Wraith King,
Phantom Assassin etc.
Doom
* Doom,
Disruptor with
Aghanim's Scepter, and hex abilities all prevent item usage, which is a severe problem for Phantom Assassin as it prevents her from using
Black King Bar, the one item that helps protect her against the aforementioned dangers.
Doom and
Shadow Demon with
Aghanim's Scepter also disables Phantom Assassin's Evasion and Critical Strike, removing much of her damage and survivabaility.
Bristleback
[wiki] rating: -1.0 (winrate: 45% pickrate: 8%)Doom
* Infernal Blade deals scaling damage and is useful against high health targets such as Bristleback.
* Doom disables Bristleback's low cooldown abilities, preventing him from triggering Warpath. With
Aghanim's Scepter, it also breaks Bristleback's passive, rendering him more vulnerable.
Additional:
* Infernal Blade deals scaling damage and is useful against high HP targets such as Bristleback.
* If Doom gets an Aghanim's Scepter, he can disable
Bristleback, taking away much of his durability.
* Doom prevents Bristleback from casting his two low cooldown abilities, which then prevents him from utilizing Warpath.
Shadow Fiend
[wiki] rating: -1.0 (winrate: 46% pickrate: 18%)Doom
* Doom has several disable abilities to choose from jungle creeps (e.g. War Stomp,
Ensnare) to deal with Shadow Fiend who lacks escape abilities.
* When Doom combines creep abilities with Scorched Earth,
Infernal Blade, and
Doom, Shadow Fiend most likely will die as he cannot use Shadowraze and Requiem of Souls to protect himself, and also cannot even flee by using
Shadow Blade or
Blink Dagger.
* Although Shadow Fiend has a high physical damage output, Doom has a large health pool to survive it, meaning Doom's combo with high magical damage output will shutdown Shadow Fiend first.
* Doom usually buys Radiance to improve his damage, making his nuke combo more deadly to Shadow Fiend. The blind also prevents Shadow Fiend from landing his attacks often.
Pudge
[wiki] rating: -1.0 (winrate: 47% pickrate: 21%)Doom
* Doom disables the toggling of Rot and, if cast at the right time, may leave Pudge with a potentially lethal health drain.
* Doom's naturally high health, strength gain and damage output makes him a poor target for Pudge.
* The damage of Doom's Infernal Blade scales with the target's maximum health, which is particularly effective against Pudge due to his naturally high health and further health granted by stacks of Flesh Heap.
Additional:
* Infernal Blade deals high damage to Pudge due to his high strength grow with Flesh Heap.
* Using Doom with timing against Pudge who had just activated Rot would usually kill him.
Anti-Mage
[wiki] rating: -1.0 (winrate: 48% pickrate: 14%)Doom
* Doom shuts down Anti-Mage's escape capabilities with Blink. The ability also deals pure damage, which ignores the protection from Counterspell.
* If Doom has Aghanim's Scepter,
Infernal Blade can hit Anti-Mage loses his Mana Break and Counterspell, weakening both his offense and defense.
* Doom's low mana pool causes him to take little damage from Mana Void.
Additional:
* Doom prevents Anti-Mage from maneuvering around a fight or escaping from an initiation using Blink. Additionally, Doom deals pure damage, which is not affected by
Counterspell. This can quickly whittle away Anti-Mage's naturally poor health pool.
* Be careful when using Doom as a well-timed Counterspell can block and reflect it back against Doom himself.
* An Aghanim's Scepter upgraded Infernal Blade will also disable Mana Break and
Counterspell, which makes Anti-Mage significantly less effective in fights and more susceptible to the high magical damage of Doom's abilities and any allies'.
Legion Commander
[wiki] rating: -1.0 (winrate: 48% pickrate: 13%)Winter Wyvern
* Cold Embrace saves allies from dying in Duels.
* Winter's Curse turns Legion Commander's high damage against her allies, giving the enemy team little time to react.
* However, Winter Wyvern lanes very poorly against Legion Commander due to Press the Attack removing all the debuffs she can give. Winter Wyvern also has little chances of surviving if she gets Dueled herself.
Additional:
* Cold Embrace is very effective against Duel.
* Also, casting Winter's Curse at Legion Commander while an ally is in a
Duel will stun her for most of the duration, possibly preventing lethal damage dealt to your ally. It can also turn her high-damage against her teammate.
Ursa
[wiki] rating: -1.0 (winrate: 49% pickrate: 13%)Doom
* Doom makes Ursa less disruptive, and it cannot be dispelled with Enrage upgraded with
Aghanim's Scepter.
* Aghanim's Scepter upgraded
Infernal Blade can break Fury Swipes, negating much of his damage output.
Death Prophet
[wiki] rating: -1.0 (winrate: 50% pickrate: 2%)Doom
* Doom can stop Death Prophet from casting spells, which makes her useless during team fights if she didn't cast Exorcism before the fight. Furthermore, Doom can use
Scorched Earth to chase after her.
Troll Warlord
[wiki] rating: -1.0 (winrate: 50% pickrate: 10%)Winter Wyvern
* Cold Embrace can protect Troll Warlord's target, especially during Battle Trance.
* Winter's Curse can turn Troll Warlord's high physical damage and attack speed against his allies.
Additional:
* Cold Embrace will protect your ally from being damaged if he gets focused by Troll.
* His high attack speed and bash will help to kill his cursed ally faster.
Crystal Maiden
[wiki] rating: -1.0 (winrate: 50% pickrate: 14%)Doom
* Doom alone can easily pick off Crystal Maiden since she is fairly fragile, even with using only basic attacks, Infernal Blade, and
Scorched Earth.
* Doom prevents her from using any abilities in a fight, making her impact negligible.
* Devour allows Doom to acquire a stun, allowing him to cancel Freezing Field without having to use
Doom.
Elder Titan
[wiki] rating: -1.0 (winrate: 50% pickrate: 1%)Doom
* Infernal Blade deals scaling damage and is useful against high HP targets such as Elder Titan.
* Doom has very low base armor and naturally high HP, so he isn't significantly affected by Natural Order.
Void Spirit
[wiki] rating: -1.0 (winrate: 50% pickrate: 10%)Doom
* Doom is effective against every hero, and Void Spirit is no exception. Being unable to cast spells or items during fights for 16 seconds nullifies his impact entirely.
* Doom has a very versatile build and can consume creeps which has abilities that can stun or provide additional magic resistance.
* Doom's high strength gain and versatility in items can be effective against Void Spirit's magical damage.
Storm Spirit
[wiki] rating: -1.0 (winrate: 50% pickrate: 10%)Doom
* Doom prevents Storm Spirit from using all of his abilities and items, rendering Storm Spirit useless in a fight.
Arc Warden
[wiki] rating: -1.0 (winrate: 51% pickrate: 5%)Doom
* Arc Warden relies on items and abilities, as well as his {U:Tempest Double}, to deal damage to enemies. Doom effectively denies that and makes Arc Warden useless in fights.
Visage
[wiki] rating: -1.0 (winrate: 51% pickrate: 2%)Doom
* Scorched Earth can be used to engage Visage while removing Gravekeeper's Cloak charges.
* Infernal Blade will deal tremendous amounts of damage over time due to Visage's high health pool.
* Doom completely nullifies Gravekeeper's Cloak and prevents Visage from casting spells.
Tidehunter
[wiki] rating: -1.0 (winrate: 53% pickrate: 8%)Doom
* Infernal Blade deals scaling damage and is useful against high HP targets such as Tidehunter.
* If Doom gets an Aghanim's Scepter, he can also disable
Kraken Shell, reducing his survivability and tankiness.
* Doom prevents Tidehunter from casting his Gush,
Anchor Smash and
Ravage, making him useless in team fights.
Underlord
[wiki] rating: -1.0 (winrate: 54% pickrate: 8%)Doom
* In general, melee heroes without blink mechanisms or spell immunity will have a hard time positioning against Pit of Malice: Sven,
Tiny,
Wraith King,
Dragon Knight,
Meepo,
Doom,
Bounty Hunter,
Dark Seer,
Undying,
Alchemist,
Legion Commander.
Doom
* An Aghanim's Scepter-upgraded Infernal Blade can be useful against heroes with troublesome passive skills:
Phantom Assassin,
Enchantress,
Huskar,
Underlord.
Additional:
* Infernal Blade does damage based on percentage health, and is useful against high health pool hero like Underlord
* Doom can prevent Underlord from spamming his abilities and most important is prevent him from using Dark Rift to escape
Winter Wyvern
* Winter's Curse and
Splinter Blast can devastate Underlord's team when they're grouped up for Dark Rift.
Beastmaster
[wiki] rating: -1.0 (winrate: 55% pickrate: 4%)Winter Wyvern
* Cold Embrace mitigates Primal Roar's single-target initiation on allies.
* Winter's Curse can turn Beastmaster's summons and Inner Beast against his teammate.
Additional:
* Beastmaster's summons and Inner Beast are very useful to attack his cursed teammate.
* Cold Embrace effectively mitigates Primal Roar's single-target initiation on allies.
Lycan
[wiki] rating: -1.0 (winrate: 57% pickrate: 6%)Winter Wyvern
* Arctic Burn allows Winter Wyvern to escape Lycan, even when he uses his ultimate.
* Splinter Blast is very effective in dealing with Lycan's summons.
* Cold Embrace saves allies from Lycan's raw physical damage and can buy allies enough time to turn the tide of battle.
* Winter's Curse stops lycan in his tracks and is very effective because of Lycan's summons.
Additional:
* All of Lycan's damage is physical which is totally negated by Cold Embrace.
* Lycan often moves around with large amount of creeps, wolves created by Summon Wolves, neutral creep dominated by
Helm of the Dominator and summons created by
Necronomicon which can be easily cleared by Splinter Blast or used as a great source of damage by Winter's Curse. If you catch Lycan with creeps nearby and affected by
Shapeshift using Winter's Curse on him will most certainly end up with his death.
Enchantress
[wiki] rating: -0.6 (winrate: 46% pickrate: 1%)Doom
* Heroes with break can disable Untouchable for a while: Doom and
Shadow Demon (via
Aghanim's Scepter),
Viper
Ember Spirit
[wiki] rating: -0.6 (winrate: 46% pickrate: 9%)Doom
* The general opinion that Doom can counter Ember Spirit with his
Doom is a misconception, as
Doom has a long cast animation, so an attentive Ember Spirit can easily dodge it if he has a Fire Remnant nearby. Doom is still an extremely effective early ganker however, as his
Scorched Earth and
Infernal Blade damage can quickly overwhelm Flame Guard's magic damage absorption, leaving Ember Spirit with no protection against them. Additional skills that Doom can get from Neutral creeps can also help bully Ember Spirit early.
Shadow Blade or
Blink Dagger on Doom can also help, providing a good way to apply
Doom on Ember Spirit.
Additional:
* Ember Spirit cannot use his Activate Fire Remnant while Doomed to escape from Doom.
Earthshaker
[wiki] rating: -0.6 (winrate: 48% pickrate: 10%)Doom
* Silencer's
Global Silence and
Doom's
Doom makes Earthshaker temporarily useless.
Huskar
[wiki] rating: -0.6 (winrate: 50% pickrate: 2%)Doom
* Heroes with abilities that break Berserker's Blood, lowering Huskar's attack speed and health regeneration: Doom,
Shadow Demon,
Viper.
Pangolier
[wiki] rating: -0.6 (winrate: 50% pickrate: 8%)Winter Wyvern
* Heroes with other kind of disables that pierce spell immunity can hold Pangolier in place during Rolling Thunder: Axe,
Beastmaster,
Enigma,
Magnus,
Pudge,
Batrider,
Bane,
Winter Wyvern
Mirana
[wiki] rating: -0.6 (winrate: 50% pickrate: 16%)Doom
* Heroes with silences and hard stuns such as Doom,
Silencer, and
Lion can keep Mirana from Leaping away.
Lone Druid
[wiki] rating: -0.6 (winrate: 51% pickrate: 2%)Doom
* Lone Druid is essentially two heroes. Dooming one over the other still leaves Lone Druid or his bear able to do their job during a fight. Additionally, Lone Druid is not hindered as much as other heroes by the silence and mute of Doom since the hero relies more on attacks than abilities.
Doom
* Besides Lone Druid and
Meepo, Doom is potentially good versus every hero since Doom will render any hero helpless for a prolonged 15 seconds. This is particularly true for fragile heroes that heavily rely on mobility to stay alive.
Winter Wyvern
* Cold Embrace can protect allies from Lone Druid and the Spirit bear, who mainly deal physical damage
* Winter's Curse can turn Lone Druid and the Spirit Bear against his teammates.
Warlock
[wiki] rating: -0.6 (winrate: 51% pickrate: 5%)Doom
* Supports with useful teamfight or contribution spells will be helpless against Doom: Dazzle,
Oracle,
Warlock.
Juggernaut
[wiki] rating: -0.6 (winrate: 53% pickrate: 19%)Winter Wyvern
* Heroes with abilities that can save are also effective such as Shadow Demon,
Dazzle,
Oracle,
Bane,
Pugna,
Tusk,
Winter Wyvern,
Io,
Underlord,
Treant Protector and
Keeper of the Light.
Broodmother
[wiki] rating: -0.6 (winrate: 55% pickrate: 2%)Winter Wyvern
* Broodmother,
Nature's Prophet,
Phantom Lancer by their nature offer very good target for Splinter Blast and Winter's Curse.
Io
[wiki] rating: -0.4 (winrate: 47% pickrate: 4%)Doom
* Heroes with the ability to heal allies, or those with good defensive abilities: (Chen,
Dazzle,
Io,
Oracle,
Omniknight,
Witch Doctor,
Winter Wyvern, (
Abaddon, etc.
Winter Wyvern
* Cold Embrace can render the extra attack speed from Overcharge meaningless.
* Splinter Blast and
Winter's Curse are very affective against Io, as it has to stay close to its tethered hero.
Chaos Knight
[wiki] rating: -0.4 (winrate: 51% pickrate: 4%)Doom
* Single-target disablers will have difficulty locking down a Chaos Knight with Phantasm active: Bane,
Beastmaster,
Bloodseeker,
Clockwerk,
Doom,
Shadow Shaman.
Winter Wyvern
* Cold Embrace protects targets of Reality Rift.
* Winter's Curse turns Phantasm illusions against Chaos Knight or a teammate.
* Splinter Blast deals decent area damage to Phantasm illusions.
* Arctic Burn's percentage-based damage quickly wears down Chaos Knight's health.
Additional:
* Winter Wyvern can make Chaos Knight's illusions attack the real one, provided the player knows who it is.
* Alternatively, Winter's Curse can make Chaos Knight and all his illusions attack one of his allies.
* Cold Embrace protects ally who is focused by Chaos Knight.
* Splinter Blast deals decent area damage to Chaos Knight's illusions.
Abaddon
[wiki] rating: -0.4 (winrate: 52% pickrate: 3%)Doom
* Heroes with the ability to heal allies, or those with good defensive abilities: (Chen,
Dazzle,
Io,
Oracle,
Omniknight,
Witch Doctor,
Winter Wyvern, (
Abaddon, etc.
Doom
* Doom will make Abaddon unable to use Mist Coil, Aphotic Shield, and the active component of Borrowed Time, which means his allies could be easily disabled or killed.
* Infernal Blade upgraded with
Aghanim's Scepter can break Curse of Avernus and the passive component of Borrowed Time. It also deals high damage due to Abaddon's high health.
Nyx Assassin
[wiki] rating: -0.4 (winrate: 54% pickrate: 13%)Doom
* Deals damage over time: Venomancer,
Huskar,
Ember Spirit,
Dark Seer,
Sand King,
Doom
* The nature of some abilities turn them into an easy target for a turnover from Spiked Carapace:
* Slow-moving projectiles: Skywrath Mage,
Tinker,
Necrophos
* Large area-of-effect with delay or require channeling: Enigma,
Crystal Maiden,
Invoker,
Shadow Fiend,
Pugna,
Keeper of the Light
* Deals damage over time: Venomancer,
Huskar,
Ember Spirit,
Dark Seer,
Sand King,
Doom
Doom
* A well-timed Doom prevents Nyx Assassin escaping with Vendetta and does not allow him to disengage with Spiked Carapace.
* Doom's high HP easily shrug off Nyx Assassin's burst damage and fend him off.
Phantom Lancer
[wiki] rating: -0.2 (winrate: 49% pickrate: 7%)Doom
* Phantom Lancer's illusions can make it difficult to Doom the original. Should Doom figure out the original hero, the illusions can make it difficult to cast any abilities, as their hitboxes can be used to body-block the Phantom Lancer.
* Phantom Lancer is an ideal Diffusal Blade carrier. With it, he can quite easily deplete Doom's already poor mana pool, potentially making him unable to cast his abilities to escape, retaliate or heal.
* Doom lacks any effective ability to clear waves of creeps and illusions, as the vast majority of his abilities are single-target. Without an answer, Doom may find it difficult to deal with Phantom Lancer's presence.
Doom
* Doom's
Doom marks Phantom Lancer with a highly visible effect, and also silences him.
* Heroes with undispellable debuffs will help identify the real Phantom Lancer through visual effects or debuff indicators, provided that it was cast on the real Phantom Lancer to begin with:
* Doom's
Doom marks Phantom Lancer with a highly visible effect, and also silences him.
* Bloodseeker's
Rupture shows a clear red trail effect on the real Phantom Lancer.
* Ancient Apparition's
Ice Blast will only debuff Phantom Lancer and not his illusions.
* Grimstroke's
Soulbind is undispellable.
* Shadow Demon's
Demonic Purge is undispellable.
* Monkey King's
Jingu Mastery is undispellable and puts a big yellow Mark over his head.
Winter Wyvern
* Broodmother,
Nature's Prophet,
Phantom Lancer by their nature offer very good target for Splinter Blast and Winter's Curse.
Sven
[wiki] rating: 0.0 (winrate: 42% pickrate: 1%)Doom
* Doom generally does not impede Sven in any way, provided he has activated God's Strength beforehand.
Winter Wyvern
* Cold Embrace saves any ally Sven initiates on and wastes the duration of God's Strength in team fights.
* Winter's Curse can be devastating to Sven's team, as his massive damage can take out a teammate before there is much time to react.
Terrorblade
[wiki] rating: 0.0 (winrate: 46% pickrate: 5%)Doom
* Terrorblade can use
Sunder to save his allies who are Doomed.
Winter Wyvern
* Terrorblade and his illusions deal huge damage, which might used against him and his team with Winter's Curse.
Morphling
[wiki] rating: 0.0 (winrate: 47% pickrate: 12%)Doom
* Heroes who often build Linken's Sphere:
Weaver,
Morphling,
Medusa.
Winter Wyvern
* Winter Wyvern's
Winter's Curse turns Morphling's high attack damage and attack speed against his targeted teammate.
Chen
[wiki] rating: 0.0 (winrate: 48% pickrate: 0%)Doom
* Heroes with the ability to heal allies, or those with good defensive abilities: (Chen,
Dazzle,
Io,
Oracle,
Omniknight,
Witch Doctor,
Winter Wyvern, (
Abaddon, etc.
Doom
* Heroes that can instantly kill creeps greatly reduce the effectiveness of Chen's converted army: Lifestealer,
Doom,
Mirana,
Clinkz.
Dazzle
[wiki] rating: 0.0 (winrate: 48% pickrate: 6%)Doom
* Heroes with the ability to heal allies, or those with good defensive abilities: (Chen,
Dazzle,
Io,
Oracle,
Omniknight,
Witch Doctor,
Winter Wyvern, (
Abaddon, etc.
Doom
* Supports with useful teamfight or contribution spells will be helpless against Doom: Dazzle,
Oracle,
Warlock.
Additional:
* Doom can completely shut down Dazzle through Doom, as it prevents him from casting his abilities and, by extension, gaining Bad Juju stacks.
Tinker
[wiki] rating: 0.0 (winrate: 49% pickrate: 8%)Winter Wyvern
* All of his damage is magical and pure, which makes Cold Embrace a good setup for his nukes.
* Winter's Curse is very hard to cast on Tinker because he usually stays in the back-lines in team-fights. In turn, Tinker has mediocre attack damage and will contribute very little when he is cursed to attack an ally. He can also save his ally under Winter's Curse effect with Ethereal Blade.
Doom
* Tinker is heavily reliant on casting his spells and Doom can disable all of his abilities and items. An
Aghanim's Scepter only makes it harder for Tinker to survive.
Additional:
* Tinker is heavily dependent on active abilities and Doom prevents him from using any of them.
Invoker
[wiki] rating: 0.0 (winrate: 50% pickrate: 17%)Winter Wyvern
* Cold Embrace is the perfect setup for all his nukes - Chaos Meteor,
EMP and especially global
Sun Strike.
Doom
* Doom completely takes Invoker out of a team fight, a hero who relies on using abilities and items to contribute.
Additional:
* Doom is a good way to shut down Invoker, preventing from casting spells and using items for a lengthy time, thus forcing him to invest on
Linken's Sphere.
Timbersaw
[wiki] rating: 0.0 (winrate: 50% pickrate: 7%)Winter Wyvern
* Timbersaw relies on dealing massive amounts of pure damage, making Cold Embrace a good setup for his nukes.
* If he has Reactive Armor stacks, Timbersaw can tank the damage from his allies if he is targeted by Winter's Curse. If he's not the target, Timbersaw's abysmal attack damage will contribute next to nothing when he is cursed to attack an ally.
Doom
* Doom shuts down Timbersaw completely, negating his mobility and preventing him from doing any damage.
* Infernal Blade can stun Timbersaw several times in a fight, potentially interrupting Timber Chain. It also breaks Reactive Armor's passive bonuses from
Aghanim's Scepter.
Additional:
* Infernal Blade deals scaling damage and is useful against high HP targets such as Timbersaw.
* Timbersaw is extremely reliant on his abilities to be effective during a teamfight - both for mobility, damage and crowd control. Timbersaw offers very little impactful right-click damage, and thus Doom is particularly crippling against this hero.
* Additionally, when upgraded with Aghanim's Scepter, Infernal Blade breaks
Reactive Armor, which effectively removes the durability which Timbersaw is commonly known for.
Oracle
[wiki] rating: 0.0 (winrate: 50% pickrate: 9%)Doom
* Heroes with the ability to heal allies, or those with good defensive abilities: (Chen,
Dazzle,
Io,
Oracle,
Omniknight,
Witch Doctor,
Winter Wyvern, (
Abaddon, etc.
Doom
* Supports with useful teamfight or contribution spells will be helpless against Doom: Dazzle,
Oracle,
Warlock.
To start select enemy heroes in the field above. It's intended to be used with multiple heroes. The more enemy heroes you provide the better results you will get.
About
This website was made to help you in pick stage of online game Dota 2. It calculates rating for each possible counterpicks based on tips from web-based database made up entirely of user contributions Dota 2 wiki.
You will get the list of recommended hero counters with a list of tips written by Dota 2 wiki contributors explaining why it's good against the particular hero. In comparison to other similar websites, which show only rating based on average hero winrate from dotabuff or similar service.
How to interpret this data
Take it with a bit of grain of salt, especially if the recommendation has a low rating (<= 1), some heroes
may win a lane in an early game but would lose in late game (and vice versa). That's why sometimes
you could hero names appearing as a counter and as being countered, as on image:
You can also add your own tips, update old data and fix mistakes by editing page on Dota 2 Wiki (it works like Wikipedia - anyone can contribute, you don't even need to register) these edits will appear on this website automatically (data is updated several times per week).
Right now there is no app/overlay that will detect picks automatically (like overwolf dota plus or become the gamer), instead, you can open web version in a steam in-game browser or use mobile version on your smartphone.
Want to know more? Check FAQ
List of new features that have been added
- Results now also sorted both by rating and average hero win rate for the chosen rank (data from dotabuff)
- You can share counterpick suggestions just by copying URL. Try it: Pudge and Phantom Assasin counters
- Results from the left and right column are partially merged now: the green color shows counterpicks and red color heroes who are countered by an enemy pick.
- Added link next to each hero pointing to wiki hero page
- Counterpick suggestions will appear as you type
- Added statistics: Total entries in the database: 557, last updated: about 1 month ago
- Filtering by role: carry/durable/support - data taken directly from the game (basically the filters which you see on pick stage in dota)
- Filtering by lane: off lane/safe lane/mid lane (dotabuff most played)
- Tips now include icons next to the heroes/spells/item names (just like on Dota 2 wiki)
- Added item suggestions
- Heroes now can be searched by their abbreviations: CM - Crystal Maiden, Kotl - Keeper Of The Light, AM - Anti Mage etc.
- Mobile website version
- importing picks from dotabuff/opendota URL or matchid
- sorting by personal winrate after logging via steam
- dota overlay(like Overwolf Dota Plus) that will automatically detect picks and bans this will also bring synergy and ban suggestion based on opponent recent games and most played/highest winrate heroes (but don't expect it soon).
Sharing link to this site is always appreciated.
Dota 2 is a registered trademark of Valve Corporation. This site is not affiliated with Valve Corporation. All game images and names are property of Valve Corporation.
Most popular searches list
Slark, PudgeDazzle, Pudge
Techies, Spectre
Tusk, Elder Titan
Bounty Hunter, Huskar
Axe, Legion Commander
Ancient Apparition, Abaddon
Ancient Apparition, Anti-Mage
Axe, Techies, Spectre
Alchemist, Ancient Apparition
Kunkka, Axe, Grimstroke
Phantom Assassin, Crystal Maiden
Phantom Assassin, Pudge, Pugna
Slark, Pudge, Ancient Apparition
Faceless Void, Drow Ranger, Slark
Ancient Apparition, Anti-Mage, Bane
Abaddon, Alchemist, Ancient Apparition
Alchemist, Ancient Apparition, Anti-Mage
Pudge, Invoker, Drow Ranger, Weaver
Abaddon, Alchemist, Arc Warden, Bane
Anti-Mage, Arc Warden, Axe, Dark Willow
Dazzle, Witch Doctor, Bristleback, Spectre
Riki, Crystal Maiden, Visage, Treant Protector
Anti-Mage, Abaddon, Axe, Bane, Batrider
Riki, Invoker, Bristleback, Sniper, Lion
Crystal Maiden, Magnus, Enigma, Sven, Luna
Weaver, Invoker, Pudge, Lich, Ember Spirit
Sniper, Slark, Troll Warlord, Visage, Ursa
Ogre Magi, Ursa, Troll Warlord, Meepo, Lich
Ogre Magi, Treant Protector, Necrophos, Chaos Knight
Alchemist, Ancient Apparition, Anti-Mage, Arc Warden
Gyrocopter, Riki, Slardar, Bloodseeker, Meepo
Faceless Void, Tinker, Lion, Brewmaster, Pudge
Riki, Legion Commander, Tiny, Invoker, Spectre
Alchemist, Lina, Lycan, Luna, Nature's Prophet
Pudge, Zeus, Lich, Juggernaut, Centaur Warrunner
Clockwerk, Pudge, Invoker, Shadow Shaman, Sniper
Silencer, Zeus, Faceless Void, Sniper, Sand King
Huskar, Pudge, Alchemist, Luna, Phantom Assassin
Centaur Warrunner, Spirit Breaker, Tusk, Axe, Tiny
Drow Ranger, Sniper, Earthshaker, Bristleback, Riki
Tinker, Pudge, Earthshaker, Elder Titan, Gyrocopter
Phantom Assassin, Pudge, Riki, Invoker, Chaos Knight
Dazzle, Ogre Magi, Invoker, Rubick, Phantom Assassin
Spirit Breaker, Outworld Devourer, Axe, Warlock, Ursa
Winter Wyvern, Lich, Ember Spirit, Underlord, Leshrac
Leshrac, Shadow Shaman, Sniper, Necrophos, Terrorblade
Abaddon, Bane, Storm Spirit, Grimstroke, Phantom Lancer
Abaddon, Anti-Mage, Arc Warden, Ancient Apparition, Axe
Windranger, Storm Spirit, Ember Spirit, Riki, Alchemist
Brewmaster, Pudge, Storm Spirit, Phantom Lancer, Oracle
Alchemist, Ancient Apparition, Anti-Mage, Axe, Arc Warden
Ancient Apparition, Anti-Mage, Arc Warden, Axe, Alchemist
Luna, Vengeful Spirit, Storm Spirit, Undying, Beastmaster
Juggernaut, Zeus, Sven, Ancient Apparition, Spirit Breaker
Axe, Ancient Apparition, Bloodseeker, Clinkz, Chaos Knight
Phantom Assassin, Pudge, Huskar, Queen of Pain, Earthshaker
Axe, Drow Ranger, Vengeful Spirit, Windranger, Winter Wyvern
Juggernaut, Shadow Shaman, Windranger, Meepo, Spirit Breaker
Abaddon, Alchemist, Anti-Mage, Arc Warden, Ancient Apparition
Abaddon, Alchemist, Ancient Apparition, Anti-Mage, Arc Warden
Juggernaut, Ember Spirit, Shadow Shaman, Ogre Magi, Brewmaster
Shadow Shaman, Spirit Breaker, Sniper, Wraith King, Earthshaker
Invoker, Grimstroke, Windranger, Bounty Hunter, Phantom Assassin
Treant Protector, Puck, Vengeful Spirit, Shadow Fiend, Anti-Mage
Phantom Assassin, Wraith King, Skywrath Mage, Silencer, Shadow Fiend
Bristleback, Crystal Maiden, Invoker, Phantom Lancer, Vengeful Spirit
Doom
* Heroes with a slow attack rate will find themselves struggling to take out Tombstone, like
Doom.
Winter Wyvern
* Winter Wyvern cannot handle the Zombies created by Undying's Tombstone very well. In most situations, Zombies will have more movement speed than her.
Tombstone very well. In most situations, Zombies will have more movement speed than her.
Decay stacks on an ally in Cold Embrace. The ally will still take the damage as well, since it is magical.
* Undying can gain one or two easy Decay stacks on an ally in Cold Embrace. The ally will still take the damage as well.
Additional:
* Winter Wyvern cannot handle the Zombies created by
* Undying can gain one or two easy